Conversations (and something to do with Fire)
A perfect steak , seared on the outside , medium rare , an unending glass of Cabernet , the smell of pine after a cleansing rain , a fire on a snowy evening , and a stimulating conversation are a ‘few of my favorite things’ .
On the same token , just like when I hear someone order steak sauce for thier 28 day ,dry aged ,16oz. Porterhouse that has been painstakingly prepared at 1300 degrees F , my mind comes to a screetching halt when I read or hear someone intentionally stopping a conversation with petty jabs , labels , or personal attacks .
I am guilty of having done the same thing at times ( never the steak sauce , just the pettiness) and it is shameful .
What happens when you put a stop to a conversation ? What have you won ? When you stomp your foot and slam the door , what does that mean ? It means the conversation is over , that’s all , and that’s not really the point of a conversation , if it’s not ongoing , it’s not a conversation .
I speak with people frequently with whom I mostly disagree on every issue except civil rights and reproductive rights ,and I absolutely cherish our disagreements , because conversing vs. having two opposing monologues contains a vital element that imbues a priceless endowment of knowledge . That element ? LISTENING .
I listen , and I learn . I may never agree , but I learn . I learn about society , about the importance of perspective , about how one’s views and beliefs have formed and sometimes cemented . I genuinely listen and force myself to try and view the debate from the other side . I appreciate passion and determination , fighting for your principles and standing your ground . I also know it’s possible to disagree with someone and still respect them and their positions.
I have my own opinions . Does that mean that because your’s are based on a different world view or perspective that you are ‘ignorant’ , ‘stupid’ , a ‘traitor’ ,or just ” batshit crazy ” ?
Because Einstien and Hawkins think I can (theoretically)step into some kind of freaky hole and come out in another space and time and I have never seen any evidence to make me think that is true , should I call them ignorant ? Crazy?
Because I disagree with birthers , trufers , astroturfers, or a former Governor who thinks there’s something conspicuous or subversive in a bill (that I haven’t even read so I have no e’ffing clue what’s in it ) does that automatically give me the ‘full speed ahead’ on handing out the “Crazy, Ignorant Loon” label to them ?
Do I have that moral authority or just that hubris ?
Conversations are designed to be alive . Their purpose is of continum . To simply cut off conversation is to deny only yourself of any hope of understanding the world as seen through eyes other than your own . To live only in your own truth without regard to the validity of someone elses is akin to donning your own personal armor of benightedness .
We can choose to only chat amongst ourselves and pat eachother on the back , slap each other on the ass , and hi- five as or world gets smaller and smaller , or we can learn how to have Conversations and grow our own perspective and maybe learn a few things along the way .
Remember what Ranier Maria Rilke said before you decide to slam a door , “A person isn’t who they are during the last conversation you had with them – they’re who they’ve been throughout your whole relationship.”
If you have found yourself feeling defensive or have already come up with responses to various aspects of this thread , chances are you haven’t taken the time to even try to ‘listen’ or envision a different perspective … Just sayin’ …
August 9, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Or chances are that you’ve heard the same knee-jerk, nonsensical tropes 7000 times and do not consider them worthy of your limited time and attention.
Just sayin’.
I do not see the point of speaking with people who do not listen to me. I do not see the point of suffering through the same ill-thought-out, moronic BS in my chosen corner of the blogosphere that I have to suffer through in every other corner of society.
If I want a different “perspective” than mine, all I have to do is open any newspaper, turn on any news station, or read any online publication or blog. The rightwing point of view is well-established and has been for decades. The Obot point of view is “Obama can do no wrong.” Both of these points of view are quite pervasive. What is the point of letting them into one of the few liberal havens in the blogosphere?
A conversation is a two-way street. When they, the aggressors and the silencers of liberal PUMA views, stop demonizing me and start listening, then maybe I’ll consider doing the same. Otherwise, they and their hateful, uninformed bigotry can go climb a tree.
August 9, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Madamab , I don’t consider people coming over to your house just to pee in your pool legitimate conversation . Neither do I divide perspectives into such clearly defined camps ; RW , Obot , or Liberal .
I understand that , in conversations I have , I can’t control whether or not others will ever ‘listen’ only that I will .
August 9, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Gabriel, thank you so much for quoting me on “batshit crazy” regarding those that impose Fundamentalism on others, but more so of their batshit craziness for buying into that batshit crazy belief system in the first place. Next time can you credit me with a reference though. LOL
(That was said with the greatest of listening skills and love and playfulness.)
August 9, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Lol ! I’m sorry LTD , but ‘batshit crazy’ has always been one of my favs. as well . I didn’t know I was quoting you . In the spirit of omething or other , however, I will , from here on out credit you with the use of my all time favorite term for those who I think may be a bit on the loony side …
August 9, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Gabriel
Thanks for the invite.
Your post and comment is right on and balanced.
I’m surprised that the first two guest comments seem so defensive.
August 9, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Thank you for reading .
I think any defensiveness may be my fault . I am trying to convey a principle without coming off as angry (as cinie misunderstood me for on yesterday’s thread ) and accusatory .
I may not be as adept in my attempts to present alternative ideas as I had hoped ..
August 9, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Obviously you were not applying good listening skills, when reading my post, Dances. There was no defensiveness there. Playfulness which you might could have picked up on in reading gabriel’s post as well. And you bet your ass, now I am being defensive. It was “you” dances that came here pointing your high-powered finger. How’s that for defensive.
August 9, 2009 at 9:29 pm
something or other ..
August 10, 2009 at 12:00 am
hmmm ….
not exactly what I had in mind
August 10, 2009 at 2:32 am
But Goddess bless you Gabriel for trying. LOL Just keep being you!
August 11, 2009 at 1:35 am
I have a thread up Gabriel that you might enjoy: F.I.S.H
http://thewiddershins.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/f-i-s-h/